Academy Award-Winning Success: Caviar's Michael Sagol on Producing Films That He Believes In

Courtesy of  Michael Sagol / Press Kitchen

Academy Award-winning film studio Caviar is constantly releasing bold and risk-taking cinema. This is clearly evident in just a few of its films like 2017’s The Rider, 2019’s Sound of Metal and 2022’s War Pony. At the helm of its U.S. operations is co-founder, Managing Director and Executive Producer Michael Sagol - an individual who prioritizes believing in his directors above all else.

Known for bringing first time names behind the camera and lighting a cinematic path for them with guidance and grit, he has also spent over two decades navigating his own road from music video setup to being a prominent behind-the-scenes name on feature films. The Movie Nerds recently had a chance to sit down with Mr. Sagol to discuss the "atomik" origins of the studio, what he’s done to survive - and thrive - this long in the entertainment industry, and why he’s willing to take a leap of faith on a story.

Sal Cento: I’d like to start off with this. Originally, three production companies were fused in order to create Caviar. Roses Are Blue, Pix In Motion and Atomik Pictures. Can you explain for a moment where they originated from and what each one was about?

Michael Sagol: Thanks for doing your homework! I'm from Belgium and I moved to the States when I was a kid. I started a service production company with an old partner who I went to college with - his name was Tom. We wanted to make movies, but before we made movies - Tom was a little further in his career than I was. He was servicing European commercials.We're trying to figure out what to call the company. His name was Tom, my name is Michael. We're like Atomic. Let’s do that! That’s how Atomic was born.

The first client we ever got was a Belgian company because they heard that there was a Belgian in LA. We shot a Guylian Chocolates commercial in 2002 with a company called Roses Are Blue and Bert Hamelinck was the owner of that company. Pix in Motion was the other. These were the two leading companies in Belgium. Roses and Pix decided to merge together in about 2003, 2004. At the time, Bert and I had built a friendship and he said to me: "We want to do something in the States, so why don't we do it together?" We went with the name Roses Are Blue.

At the beginning, we were actually called Roses Are Blue: Los Angeles. Roses and Pix came up with the name Caviar. They did all this research, telling us about how the name should be high in the alphabet and a word that's the same in every language. At the beginning Caviar was a little intimidating of a word - I was like, no that's so snobby! But we grew to love it. Now, we don't take ourselves - we take what we do seriously - but not ourselves too seriously.

Cento: You’ve said in the past that when it comes to storytelling, Caviar is always looking to take risks when it comes to the narratives that it spotlights for its audiences. Why is there a need to do this in the world of filmmaking?

Sagol: Wow, that's a beautiful question. We're so lucky that we get to be storytellers. You always want to try and push narrative into something people either don't know about or will have a new experience with, right? So, for example - working with Marielle Heler on Diary of a Teenage Girl - it was her first film, but it was such a personal story about a woman's coming of age. It just had never been done quite that way.

It’s about really believing in a director's vision to take you through a story. That's really how we come about these projects - it's always the writer and/or director . . . it's seeing it through their eyes and seeing the possibilities of exploring a topic that hasn't been done before. Even with The Rider, we came on the post of that film and looking at that footage, even the darker horse footage - you get tears in your eyes and you're like, what is happening? It transcends the classical story of native Native American tribes and everything that's happening in South Dakota. You try to convey a different message in a real setting. It really is driven by the vision of the director.

Cento: You were born in Brussels and Caviar has a sort of origin in Belgium. As time moves on and the company as a whole evolves to encompass more names and genres of film, are there any influential matters that are staying with the company throughout the years? In the way that you operate or in the way that you put productions together?

Sagol: 100%. The ethos of the company has always been to believe in filmmakers and help them through the craft of filmmaking. Bert [Hamelinck] is the founder of Caviar and I founded it in the states. He's my best friend and my mentor. The foundation of the company has always been in storytelling. At the very beginning, it was Bert and a couple of directors. You had feature directors that were about to go into commercials - kind of like a lot of what we do now - and so that echoes to the craft and the precision of storytelling.

What I've always said about Caviar in the states is - we just tried to do what they did in Belgium but bigger. Everything's bigger in America. That's really all we've done is just try and replicate the relationship with filmmakers and the material that that we approach. It's just for a bigger audience in the States, but the core of it has always been believing in a director - more, at times - than they believe in themselves and helping push them through.

Cento: At this point in time, Caviar has a great collection of films, directors and producers. Let’s go back to one of its most successful films - what was the process like towards figuring out that Sound of Metal fit the mold of Caviar’s vision in those initial stages?

Sagol: Sound of Metal was just a beautifully written story about one man's struggle. As an audience member, I experienced Sound of Metal in a completely different way than when I first read it and was a part of it because it came out in the world during COVID - and I personally went through a breakup during COVID. Watching Sound of Metal after my breakup - I was like, "Oh my god, is this my life?" I'd read the script a million times, I'd been in the edit, I’d seen all of it - but it just hit me as an audience member in a completely different way.

Cento: It was cathartic for you?

Sagol: Absolutely. I think what made us gravitate towards it was that it was just a very unique, beautiful story that lives and dies on how it's done. I think we love the challenge of really leaning in to execute these things. The margin of error is really thin and you've got to be able to hit the nail on the head. We were fortunate enough to do that with the Sound of Metal.

Cento: Can I ask the same about War Pony?

Sagol: We had spent so much time on the reservation for The Rider. Riley [Keough] and Gina [Gammell] then approached us with War Pony after they had worked with people from the reservation. Everybody on that cast and crew were so deeply ingrained in the community. It was such a beautiful story again and also angled up. This guy is just trying to get by - seeing the struggle that Native Americans have with the white man - and trying to depict that in a non stereotypical modern way.

I think again, walking that line - you got to hit the nail on the head and that was the best part about War Pony. These two stories  - the teenager and the boy and how they kind of parallel and come together. I never want to say we never do nihilistic things, but there's - even at the end of Sound of Metal - it doesn't have to be nihilistic. You can sit with it and it can take you places. It's the same thing with The Rider, you know? Brady’s going to keep going, you know? And we love those kinds of stories.

 Cento: According to IMDB, you have been in the producing game - shaping music videos, shorts, tv shows and movies for just about 10 years now. What have you found to be the most rewarding part and on the other hand, the most challenging part about being a producer?

Sagol: I really think the most rewarding part is just seeing a director's vision come to life. Keith Schofield is actually a really good example with music videos from back in the day. We met Keith in 2005. He was our first US director and worked at The Vault - a company where we were renting an office. He would shoot music videos on the weekends. We met him even before we represented directors, back when we were Atomik.

The belief in Keith and - being able to do a movie with him - knowing what our directors are capable of, we just want to propel and push through their vision. Even when they’ve done tiny music videos like Keith where you're like, "Oh my god, there is a genius there." With Keith, my favorite part has been to just really lock arms and believe in a director more than they believe in themselves - and at times, shepherd them through.

The hardest part is weird because sometimes everything about producing is hard. I think the bureaucracy and sometimes its - the right thing at the wrong moment. Now, this goes more to independent film making than commercials but it's the actual putting together of the project.

Just having gotten off set with Keith on his first feature, Not Safe for Life, the leap of faith you take is a big leap of faith. You're like, "We are going to work this out and it's not worked out yet, but you know in your mind of minds. I'm going to will this into existence. Not sure yet. The universe will help me." But as amazing and as gratifying as that is - the jump can be really grueling because sometimes it doesn't work right away, you know?

Cento: I do believe that Caviar’s latest feature - Not Safe for Life - is the film studio’s first venture into the cyberpunk subgenre. In your opinion, where does Mr. Keith Schofield’s feature length debut take this theme that it becomes unique enough to be seen by your company?

Sagol: I can't separate my producing career without Keith Schofield. He's part of our DNA. When we got the script - it was written around COVID as well, maybe in 2021 or 2022 - our head of development read the log line for Keith’s movie and it's a very quick read. It's so fast-paced. She called me and she's like Saygol, “I'm never going to be able to unread that script.” It just stays with you.

Cento: Oh, boy.

Sagol: Yeah. Yeah. It was really good. And I feel like it's got this universal truth of what's happening now. It's very rooted in a little bit in troll culture and how we can be behind a machine and say something - but then in front of it you don't say that. Sadly I feel like it's so pervasive now.

Cento: You are not only an executive producer and managing director but also one of the founders of Caviar. I assume you have ideas, stories, all sorts of pitches entering your circle all the time. How do you and your team figure out which of these productions are worth evolving? In the position that you are in, what do you look for that says - ooh,I want to dive into this, this and this but not that?

Sagol: I think you really look for a level of originality and uniqueness.You want someone with a singular voice and someone that you believe in. I've really seen my career as a producer - it's like a different muscle. You are there to support and push forward the director. It's very important to have that at the core.

It’s weird though because sadly it's a little bit of a double-edged sword. Sometimes, as much as you believe in a story - if the marketplace wants no part of it - you're kind of fucked. You have to know when to say when, you know? It becomes like a dance that you do and it's just becoming a little harder now. You could take a leap before - we've done so many films with first time directors and we're still doing them - you had stop gaps in place before like international sales and a little more of a possibility of distribution in the streaming world. All that is becoming a little trickier and that's sad because I feel like it's making it harder for unique voices to have an opportunity.

Cento: I saved this question for last - as I feel the following pieces of trivia are super interesting. You’ve been on the court with Michael Jordan himself, you’ve helped scout out locations for Madonna’s music videos and you were none other than Steven Seagal’s assistant for a brief period in time.. What were those experiences like in hindsight and how did each of those steps shape your career? Any lasting impressions?

Sagol: You know, it’s funny because those were all things that I was doing when I was a freelancer and a PA and an assistant and all that. I think it's an illustration of persistence if you will. Even the frozen job with Madonna. It was a dry lake bed, but it pours for two days.

Try getting gear out of a dry lake bed when it's wet. You're walking back to set and you have like three feet of mud on your feet. It’s crazy. But I will say - for the community out there, for budgeting filmmakers and people who want to get into this world - persistence is key.

When I was on set for my third PA job, which was that Nike commercial - I remember trying to find my way and being like - okay, you're going to give yourself 10 years in this business. Just see what happens. If you don't make it in 10 years, then it's done.

I got the Steven Seagal job because of a guy I was working with. He knew Seagal's brother-in-law. I got an interview and I got the job because if you read my name, you can pronounce it a certain way.

Steven was like, "Nice name." And I was like, "Great. Got me in.” But it's always been about persistence. Full disclosure, I gave myself ten years and it happened around year seven.  I always think about that in my career and I always try to tell people you've got to play the long game.

You hear about the overnight stories, but overnight stories only happen because somebody's busted their fucking ass for years and they were there. They showed up the day when the overnight thing happened. You get one shot but you’re going to build up to get that one shot so you have to have the muscles, the reps - all of it.

Cento: All right, that's it. Thank you, Mr. Seigel. That is a lot of information.

Sagol: Thank you so much. Have a lovely day!

As of this writing - The Rider, Sound of Metal, War Pony and The Diary of a Teenage Girl can all be streamed on Prime Video (among other platforms). While Not Safe For Life does not yet have a precise release date, shooting just began last month in Bulgaria. If you seek more information about Caviar, please visit the studio’s official website.